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Allows ninja to call loneops, adjusts weights for ninja-spawned antags #2340

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Stop-Signs
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About the PR

Loneops can now be called in by ninjas

revenants are the least likely to spawn as they are both incomplete as a role and almost entirely unfun to fight. loneops are the second most common and dragons will reign supreme

Why / Balance

Dragons almost always die instantly and revs are unfun. loneops are a actual threat that can and will distract security

Technical details

Cherrypicked from space-wizards/space-station-14#20022 (comment)

Media

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Requirements

  • I have tested all added content and changes.
  • I have added media to this PR or it does not require an ingame showcase.

Breaking changes

Changelog

🆑

  • add: Spider Clan has recently been sending NT station coordinates to the Gorlex Marauders

@Stop-Signs Stop-Signs requested a review from a team as a code owner December 2, 2024 03:12
@github-actions github-actions bot added size/XS Under 16 lines Changes: YML Changes any yml files Changes: Localization Changes any ftl files S: Needs Review labels Dec 2, 2024
@Radezolid
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They all should be equal chance in my opinion.

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@github-actions github-actions bot added size/S 16-63 lines and removed size/XS Under 16 lines labels Dec 2, 2024
@Stop-Signs Stop-Signs requested a review from deltanedas December 2, 2024 15:51
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@ThataKat
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ThataKat commented Dec 3, 2024

Direction member here. This opinion may be subject to change, but for now we're going to suggest not merging this one. Here's the reasoning:

  1. Aesthetic/Lore/Vibe/Etc: A minor point, but it's worth mentioning. Currently the Ninja spawns cosmic/space-y entities, and the lone-op feels like a strong departure from that.

  2. Mechanical Balance: For a few reasons we feel that this would be a bit on the harsh side for the crew. First of all (and do correct me if I'm wrong), I believe the lone-op has higher spawning requirements than the Ninja. This would bypass that, potentially subjecting crews that are too small by regular standards to lone-ops. Not to mention the fact that lone-ops are rare and Ninjas are more common, and this would probably lead to a significant uptick in lone-ops.

Lone-ops are also inherently round/station ending by their goal. They mostly fluke, as do dragons, but they still possess the ability to end everything. Dragons can be quite terrible, but are more straightforward to fight, and typically still allow evac (and even ERT) in the worst cases. Overall, we don't want the Ninja to be a round ending threat.

I agree that revenants are underwhelming (sadly), which makes the Ninja threat summon a coin toss in terms of whether it's actually dangerous, but we still feel that the lone-op would be a bit too far in threat level.

@Stop-Signs
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  1. Aesthetic/Lore/Vibe/Etc: A minor point, but it's worth mentioning. Currently the Ninja spawns cosmic/space-y entities, and the lone-op feels like a strong departure from that.
  2. Mechanical Balance: For a few reasons we feel that this would be a bit on the harsh side for the crew. First of all (and do correct me if I'm wrong), I believe the lone-op has higher spawning requirements than the Ninja. This would bypass that, potentially subjecting crews that are too small by regular standards to lone-ops. Not to mention the fact that lone-ops are rare and Ninjas are more common, and this would probably lead to a significant uptick in lone-ops.

Lone-ops are also inherently round/station ending by their goal. They mostly fluke, as do dragons, but they still possess the ability to end everything. Dragons can be quite terrible, but are more straightforward to fight, and typically still allow evac (and even ERT) in the worst cases. Overall, we don't want the Ninja to be a round ending threat.

I agree that revenants are underwhelming (sadly), which makes the Ninja threat summon a coin toss in terms of whether it's actually dangerous, but we still feel that the lone-op would be a bit too far in threat level.

Id like to address your points

the whole cosmic/spacey point I do understand the reasoning, but also from a lore perspective how is a ninja radioing a literal spirit of the damned.

for the mechanical balance part, i looked into it a bit further, ninjas and loneops both require 40 players to occur, and the weight difference between them is 1.5, meaning ninjas are more likely to spawn. however my reasoning when i came to the same point of "would it overload the station with threats?", would be no, it wouldnt, its actually quite common to see these 2 spawn within 5-10 minutes of each other and sometimes even close than that, I think from a balance perspective it would be much better allowing sec to KNOW something is coming on top of the ninja, rather than them be equipped to deal with a ninja (wearing slash resistant favoring equipment rather than hardsuits/pierce resistant equipment) and then have to deal with a loneop. I'd love to lower the chance of the loneop, and even potentially allow ninjas to summon rat kings gasp in a seperate PR. If yall would like any changes done to make this PR more acceptable, rather than closing it, feel free to reach out to me on discord.

@Stop-Signs Stop-Signs requested a review from deltanedas December 3, 2024 15:39
@Stop-Signs Stop-Signs closed this Dec 4, 2024
@Stop-Signs Stop-Signs deleted the First-cherry-pick-YAY branch January 9, 2025 15:21
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4 participants