AskAcademia-1534969591-99gtqx.json

{
  "sid": "99gtqx",
  "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/",
  "title:": "Why are academics so blunt (to the point of being rude)?",
  "text": "You don't have to (and I wouldn't want you to) sugar-coat anything, but jeez. It's really important to provide timely, constructive criticism, but many of the professors and grad students I know are really tactless. I've even seen people say something hurtful for the sake of saying something hurtful and then giggle about (\"oops! Did I really say that?\"). Even here on Reddit, responses in this sub and some of the others can be so soul-crushingly blunt. Is any other profession like this?\n\nI think this is especially important for junior academics: people need to know where they stand. Instead of just being nasty to them so they \"take the hint\" that they shouldn't be here, be honest yet supportive. Has anyone else noticed this, or am I just too sensitive?",
  "author": null,
  "created": 1534969591,
  "updated": 1634082330,
  "over_18": false,
  "upvotes": 96,
  "upvote_ratio": 0.89,
  "comments": {
    "e4nne54": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nne54/",
      "text": "To generalize broadly, when people are advanced in their field, chances are they are relatively assertive, and took advantage of many opportunities to get where they are, being quick to volunteer and to share their opinions or thoughts. The process of critical selection to programs, and the way applications are done, tends to get a larger-than-average amount of people who are \"go-getters\", to put it nicely, who look after themselves. It's not everyone, but it's enough to notice. I've only seen one field, but this occurs in grad school, as far as I know it's also more common in the upper levels of management, in top levels of finance, etc. ",
      "author": "indecisive_maybe",
      "created": 1534973384,
      "upvotes": 70,
      "replies": {
        "e4nppn5": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nppn5/",
          "text": "The competitive, cutthroat like environment of Academia may also attract the same kind of people that makes good politicians, surgeons. Peopel are score rather low on the empathy scale, or learned to tone it down quite a bit, because they most likely had to crush other people's hopes and even bypass friends to get where they are. This can lead to a rather insensitive and selfish personality. ",
          "author": "Murderous_squirrel",
          "created": 1534975372,
          "upvotes": 31,
          "replies": {
            "e4nqmel": {
              "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nqmel/",
              "text": "Yep! When we learn in class where the famous equations came from, it's not unusual to hear the the scientist was brilliant but was also a terrible person to work with/paranoid/eventually killed himself//went mad/something tragic. It's hard to be very, very good at something and otherwise be normal (but the people who are both do very well!)",
              "author": "indecisive_maybe",
              "created": 1534976183,
              "upvotes": 26,
              "replies": {
                "e4ratif": {
                  "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4ratif/",
                  "text": ">  it's not unusual to hear the the scientist was brilliant but was also a terrible person to work with/paranoid/eventually killed himself//went mad/something tragic.\n\nThis is ridiculously exaggerated. The vast majority of famous scientists were normal in every way.",
                  "author": null,
                  "created": 1535124961,
                  "upvotes": 3,
                  "replies": {}
                }
              }
            },
            "e4omvud": {
              "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4omvud/",
              "text": "Sorry, but this made me laugh. I'm a lecturer, not Frank Underwood - I haven't had to crush anyone to \"get here\". I also don't consider myself to have got here, because again, lecturer on crappy pay. That ain't worth crushing no friend hopes and dreams (I mean, if I were going to end up Prime Minister, then fair enough). But I'm in the UK, maybe it's different in the US.\n\nAs for the empathy thing, i find it comes from academics being solitary creatures who went into the field in the first place because they are not fond of people. I know a lot of academics who need to brush up on their social skills. The recent push in academia towards collaboration and networking has helped a bit though.",
              "author": "elphaba87",
              "created": 1535016299,
              "upvotes": 23,
              "replies": {}
            }
          }
        },
        "e4novma": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4novma/",
          "text": "> as far as I know it's also more common in the upper levels of management, in top levels of finance, etc.\n\nYou make a good point. I've never been involved in those fields, but I'd guess they're much worse than academia. Thanks.\n",
          "author": null,
          "created": 1534974649,
          "upvotes": 6,
          "replies": {
            "e4oj09x": {
              "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oj09x/",
              "text": "So much worse, in my experience.",
              "author": null,
              "created": 1535008380,
              "upvotes": 4,
              "replies": {}
            }
          }
        },
        "e4omafz": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4omafz/",
          "text": "You say this like all those were terrible human treats. I've always been a go-getter and the first to volunteer and I really hope that this in itself is already labeled as being an asshole.",
          "author": "nightwica",
          "created": 1535015036,
          "upvotes": 1,
          "replies": {}
        }
      }
    },
    "e4nlovg": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nlovg/",
      "text": "[deleted]",
      "author": null,
      "created": 1534971938,
      "upvotes": 94,
      "replies": {
        "e4nn3qw": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nn3qw/",
          "text": "This is probably true. They seem like they're capable of being nice (I mean, they have friends and families), but they just aren't nice very often.",
          "author": null,
          "created": 1534973141,
          "upvotes": 8,
          "replies": {}
        }
      }
    },
    "e4nnrem": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nnrem/",
      "text": "> Even here on Reddit, responses in this sub and some of the others can be so soul-crushingly blunt.\n\nAs a starting point, the \"even\" makes it sound like you think reddit would be a *more* polite forum than day to day discourse. Nooooo. People who would want to be nice in real life will probably be nice on the internet. People who want to be dicks in real life but can't because of social pressures can come to the internet and with the power of anonymity be nasty little son's of guns.\n\n> I've even seen people say something hurtful for the sake of saying something hurtful and then giggle about (\"oops! Did I really say that?\"). \n\nYeah, these people are just dicks. They're the kind of people who say \"Some people don't like me because I tell the truth\" which roughly translates to \"I enjoy being a dick and I kind of enjoy that people don't like me for it\". And these people exist everywhere.\n\n> many of the professors and grad students I know are really tactless\n\nConsider that they might have a different perception of tact and what constitutes \"blunt\" to you. Also I can't possibly say whether you have interpreted efficient and matter-of-fact communication as blunt/tactless. Without real examples we can't really say if you are being too sensitive. But beyond that, different people have different levels of social skills, and everyone will be dealing with different amounts of stress and constraints on their time. Between all of these things you need to be willing to cut them a little slack.\n\nTo address the tone of many people on the sub, depending on the nature and content of the questions asked people can be very considerate in their responses. But when people ask something that has (a) been asked a million times before, or (b) isn't really relevant to the sub/breaks the rules, or (c) shows no effort on the poster to understand their own question or try and find an answer (even just by googling) themselves, or (d) makes it clear that they are one of those students who thinks they've bought their degree/demands an A/acts like the world is against them because their professor won't break their back to help bump their grade in the last week of the course; well then people tend to lose patience and that is when they get a little snarky.\n",
      "author": "foibleShmoible",
      "created": 1534973692,
      "upvotes": 17,
      "replies": {
        "e4no8qa": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4no8qa/",
          "text": "> To address the tone of many people on the sub, depending on the nature and content of the questions asked people can be very considerate in their responses.\n\nYou're right, most responses on here are very considerate. I guess it is just the handful of really blunt ones that get to me. Thank you.\n\nYou're also the second commenter to mention seeing the same questions posted over and over. I didn't think to check before posting (though I am here pretty often). This post isn't a repeat, is it?",
          "author": null,
          "created": 1534974105,
          "upvotes": 5,
          "replies": {
            "e4ns161": {
              "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4ns161/",
              "text": "Oh, that wasn't a dig at you or this question. It is just something that happens *a lot* here, which is why it is one of the kinds of posts we tend to get more curt replies to. \n\nAs a general rule, if you go to any sub to ask a question, it is just good sense and courtesy to do a quick search of the buzzwords you're looking for in case it has been asked and answered (well) before. If you don't find what you're looking for then ask away, but people don't usually appreciate being asked to put time and effort into a considered response when the person asking the question hasn't even bothered to use the search bar. Which is why they might get snippy.",
              "author": "foibleShmoible",
              "created": 1534977454,
              "upvotes": 2,
              "replies": {
                "e4nsgna": {
                  "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nsgna/",
                  "text": "Thanks. I usually do search for previous posts, but I didn't this time and I got a little worried.",
                  "author": null,
                  "created": 1534977841,
                  "upvotes": 2,
                  "replies": {}
                }
              }
            },
            "e4ostdw": {
              "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4ostdw/",
              "text": "Rude responses on here get to me too, OP. But I think the majority are kind and helpful. I just get that little jolt of \"that was so rude!\" once in awhile. If you lurk here a lot you'll see that there are some regular posters who tend to be a bit cruel in how they respond to things. I just try to balance it out by being kind myself. As for academia more broadly, it's field specific like most things but there are really kind helpful people and jerks everywhere. Personally I think there is a connection between the way we think about what it is to be a very intelligent person and how this stereotype often comes with a competitive nature and disregard for others' emotions. It's just a stereotype. But a lot of people do put stock in it and cultivate their own image around that. ",
              "author": "GrandmaMabelGrey",
              "created": 1535026482,
              "upvotes": 2,
              "replies": {
                "e4oxpza": {
                  "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oxpza/",
                  "text": "> But I think the majority are kind and helpful.\n\nThat's been my experience on this sub too. I guess I just got too caught up in the negative emotions I was feeling when I posted the question. Thanks.",
                  "author": null,
                  "created": 1535031875,
                  "upvotes": 3,
                  "replies": {}
                }
              }
            }
          }
        }
      }
    },
    "e4ojtp4": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4ojtp4/",
      "text": "There are two things I want to pull apart here; rude, and blunt. There is never an excuse for being rude, and fortunately I've experienced it relatively little.\n\nBlunt is a different issue. A large part of our work revolves around communicating clearly, unambiguously, and without flowery language or excessive length. We provide critical reviews of each others work all the time, and as such get very used to getting straight honest (hopefully constructive) criticism. It's simply a communication form that ensures the minimum amount of confusion, and the minimum amount of effort to interpret.\n\nIf I'm reviewing a paper I'm not going to try and prepare the famous shit sandwich (compliment, critique, compliment). I'm going to comment, on an almost line by line basis, on what works and what doesn't. And ideally that review should be considerably shorter than the paper it's reviewing.\n\nNow, in a pedagogical setting it's certainly better to be more supportive; when it's our students we (or at least I and my colleagues, I can't speak for everyone), take a great deal of effort to help students interpret that feedback to improve. What you have on reddit, however, is a situation more akin to grad students submitting their first paper; it is not obvious who has written the paper, or what level they are at,  and the reviewer is not going to make special exceptions. So the review gets written in exactly the same way as any other.\n\nFurthermore, frequently we see people post here who have an alarming disconnect apparent in the way they are viewing their situation compared to what the academic reality is. Sugar coating a response which points this out does nothing but obfuscate the point. Assuming people aren't being actually rude (see my first paragraph), then I am totally on board with being as bluntly clear as possible to avoid any possibility of misinterpretation. This is simply communication psychology; people can be defensive of the ideas they hold, and will grab any thread that allows them to cling to an idea when challenged. If you say \"this idea is wrong\", there is no ambiguity and they are left either trying to reconcile whether they value your opinion or not. If you say something like \"I understand why you think that way, but your idea is wrong\" what they can easily take away is 'this person understands my thinking', and not take the \"this is wrong\" bit so seriously.",
      "author": "OrbitalPete",
      "created": 1535009956,
      "upvotes": 20,
      "replies": {
        "e4pe2rr": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4pe2rr/",
          "text": "I like this response. In my list of \"likely to get snippy response\" questions earlier in the thread, I was trying to think of a way to write\n\n> people post here who have an alarming disconnect apparent in the way they are viewing their situation compared to what the academic reality is\n\nbut I couldn't so I skipped it. But it is a very important point. We get too many people saying \"I don't know what to do now that I'm 3 years in to my graduate studies and realise becoming a professor isn't a given\" to pussy foot around when people ask \"Can I become a top shot professor in obscure field X when I have some experience in other field Y and my GPA isn't great and I don't have research experience but I'll totally get it and also will I earn a six figure salary?\"... I mean, there's a chance. But also, no. Most likely no. A pep talk won't help here, it is false hope. Which they wouldn't thank us for 3 years later (assuming they even got to the 3 years later).",
          "author": "foibleShmoible",
          "created": 1535045906,
          "upvotes": 5,
          "replies": {}
        }
      }
    },
    "e4nk5zl": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nk5zl/",
      "text": "I can recognize that this happens on the science and physics subs I'm on, and I try to think about being a bit gentler when I'm typing an answer, but I do understand it a bit. I have not been here for long, and questions are repeated very frequently, so you lose patience/are worn down. Then there are also the posters who have the new theory for everything, a new formulation for gravity, etc, and it is frustrating to try and debunk these things, or try to explain how it actually works, especially since they do not always want it explained.\n\nWhen I say I understand it, I do not mean that that excuses it, I just think I see the reasons why it happens. I think it is very good to at the very least keep this in mind when answering questions.",
      "author": "mumblerfish",
      "created": 1534970657,
      "upvotes": 19,
      "replies": {
        "e4nlj7q": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nlj7q/",
          "text": "I haven't been here that long either, but I haven't seen too many of the cranks with a theory of everything in this sub (but in my discipline's sub, oh boy. I don't even go there any more because of all the cranks and racists). Thanks for the reply.\n",
          "author": null,
          "created": 1534971806,
          "upvotes": 2,
          "replies": {
            "e4nplyb": {
              "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nplyb/",
              "text": "In this sub specifically I mostly get worn down by seeing the same questions over and over, OPs who argue with people whose [solicited] advice they don't like, and questions that are so uninformed or basic that they should be using Google.\n\nSo to translate that to your question, you have to remember that your PI is your 1st or maybe 2nd PI, but you may be their 10th or 100th student and they may get worn down from answering the same, uninformed, time-wasting questions over and over (which is an explanation for their poor behavior and not an excuse).\n\nI think some of it is also a power dynamic thing. Everyone who is pre-tenure is existing in a competitive, high-stakes rat race and they likely feel like so much of their future is out of their control. So when they finally get a modicum of power, they take advantage of it and power-trip.",
              "author": "MidnightSlinks",
              "created": 1534975282,
              "upvotes": 15,
              "replies": {
                "e4nql41": {
                  "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nql41/",
                  "text": "You're the third poster to mention repeat questions. I just used the search bar to find other posts with \"rude\" and \"blunt\" and the newest one was about three months ago. I probably should have done that search before posting the question. Is this post one you see a lot?",
                  "author": null,
                  "created": 1534976151,
                  "upvotes": 3,
                  "replies": {
                    "e4nqsrp": {
                      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nqsrp/",
                      "text": "They aren't saying your question is a repeat question, its that people come to sub's like this asking the same things over and over.",
                      "author": "dweed4",
                      "created": 1534976343,
                      "upvotes": 18,
                      "replies": {
                        "e4nqvyw": {
                          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nqvyw/",
                          "text": "Thanks. Sorry to be so dense. It wouldn't be the first time I've done this on Reddit if it were a repeat.",
                          "author": null,
                          "created": 1534976422,
                          "upvotes": 2,
                          "replies": {}
                        }
                      }
                    },
                    "e4oia3g": {
                      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oia3g/",
                      "text": "This post isn't, but after a while you'll see the same posts over and over. We get \n\n* \"What did my professor mean by X?\" \n* \"Can someone give me guidance with this [incredibly vague] assignment?\" \n* \"Here's my brilliant idea about how to change [something in a field OP isn't involved in or has any experience in]\" \n* \"How do I become a professor?\" \n* \"Can I switch majors in grad school?/Going to grad school in different field from undergrad?\"\n* \"Chance me.\" \n* \"Help me find a program in Europe/Asia/another baffling large geographic region.\" \n* \"Where do I get funding?\"\n\nWith a lot of these questions, as u/skleats aptly put it, the social niceties can lead students astray. Outside of what they mentioned - how softening the blow can sound ambiguous, we frequently get people who simply don't want to hear what's being said. Especially on posts about entering academia or getting into grad school. I can't even tell you how many posts I've seen where the sub has provided \"soft\" answers and the OP has completely misinterpreted it to hear what they wanted to hear. There's no ambiguity with \"you're not going to get into a highly-ranked, fully-funded PhD program with a 2.X GPA, no research and no reference letters.\"\n\nI think also, without tone, posts can come across as more blunt or rude than the writer inteded. I had an extended conversation with a secondary school student on this sub a while back who ultimately accused me of being condescending. That hadn't been my intention at all, and none of what I had written sounded condescending to me - the student had asked an unclear question and had been unhappy with previous responses, so I had been asking more questions to try and parse out what they wanted to know - but they were terribly offended by both myself, and other commenters and ultimately nuked the thread. \n\nThis isn't to say that academics aren't blunt, or that this sub can't get nasty (because they are, and it can.) But I do think that a lot of the rude responses on here can be attributed to frustration: as much as I want to help posters, it gets irksome to give the same answers on repeat, and illicit the same responses. ",
                      "author": "PurrPrinThom",
                      "created": 1535007085,
                      "upvotes": 3,
                      "replies": {}
                    }
                  }
                }
              }
            }
          }
        }
      }
    },
    "e4oim8x": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oim8x/",
      "text": "You can be as supportive as you want about statements like \"you're not getting into grad school with those grades\" or \"this paper makes a weak argument based on misinterpreted data\", but almost all recipients will still take offense. It's like breaking up with someone. There's no way to communicate it without making them upset because it's just an upsetting thing to hear.\n\n> Instead of just being nasty to them so they \"take the hint\" that they shouldn't be here\n\nif you're talking about the assholes in your example, that's not what they're doing. they're just being mean because they can. It can be hard to realize that other people rarely take your interests into account when doing anything, but once you do, I think you'll be a lot less sensitive to people being assholes (or to people being legitimately blunt) because you'll know it's not about you. \n\nAlso, sugarcoating information so that you don't look like the asshole but hoping that someone will \"get the hint\" (about life-changing stuff like applying to grad school or picking a major) is borderline unethical imo.",
      "author": "riggorous",
      "created": 1535007681,
      "upvotes": 7,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4oa5y8": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oa5y8/",
      "text": "I think it's a mixture of: \n\n1. PI's often have an unreal number of things on the go at any one time, and looking at a paper or whatever is something they're fitting in *quickly* - there's a degree of 'you get it briskly or not at all'. My PhD supervisor once wrote about 80% through 'my bus has arrived, so I'll stop here'. \n\n2. Some academics are indeed a bit on the spectrum.\n\n3. Some people are just...jerks. Stop that, Mr. Simpson.\n\nI'm not sure we have it more than other professions, particularly. I personally think at least some academics don't know how comfortable a life they have. ",
      "author": "dl064",
      "created": 1534995518,
      "upvotes": 5,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4nofeb": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nofeb/",
      "text": "Saying something hurtful just to say something hurtful isn't nice and is uncalled for. Aside from this, being blunt isn't a bad thing. Personally, one of my favourite users on this subreddit is generally quite blunt. \n\nMaking the perfect response isn't easy. You need to be honest but not rude and supportive but not sugarcoating. If a person asks to change him/her for PhD admittance and the odds aren't looking good, then it's difficult to formulate this in a supportive way. \n\nBeing blunt is also very related to culture. The dutch have the reputation for being more to-the-point and blunt. Flemings have the reputation of being more shy. To the dutch, we (I'm flemish) can seem like people that won't tell you when we have a problem. To us, the dutch can come across as rude for being too direct. On the internet, you generally deal with a very multi-cultural environment. This combined with the aspect that the internet is textual (no body language to read/show) makes communication on the internet tricky. \n",
      "author": "TheAxeC",
      "created": 1534974262,
      "upvotes": 6,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o5wx4": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o5wx4/",
      "text": "There is a [kindness in science initiative](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-00482-y) in NZ recognizing the need to make a cultural shift away from unhelpfully unkind criticism disguised as constructive critique. Not many academics know how to tread this fine line and with the constant pressure for results and more funding there is very little emotional effort to spare for a bit of patience and empathy. \n\n\nBut as noted elsewhere in this thread, rudeness is in every profession. And equally passed off as 'feedback'.",
      "author": "FactCheckMate",
      "created": 1534990829,
      "upvotes": 5,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o812s": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o812s/",
      "text": "Sometimes it is important to be blunt, because what you are thinking of as \"tact\" is directly misleading.\n\n\"Your GPA is not competitive for med school and you have not done any MCAT prep, it is a waste of your time to apply to med school.\" \n\nsounds worse than\n\n\"Well, you probably won't have the most competitive application, but there are some schools which will prioritize your interview over your GPA.\"\n\nbut it is necessary in some cases.\n\nBoth of those statements are generally true, but the tactful one will lead a student to spend hundreds of wasted dollars on an application which had no chance to begin with. (Often leading to years working dead end jobs when these students should have been talked out of being pre med much earlier).",
      "author": "skleats",
      "created": 1534993147,
      "upvotes": 12,
      "replies": {
        "e4peung": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4peung/",
          "text": "This this this. A far more eloquent example of what I was trying to say. ",
          "author": "OrbitalPete",
          "created": 1535046537,
          "upvotes": 1,
          "replies": {}
        }
      }
    },
    "e4oflti": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oflti/",
      "text": "No one gets any formal training on people skills, how to manage teams etc. And we end up with this.\nBeing in their own university echo chamber their whole life with similar sorts of people doesn't help either. ",
      "author": "GrungeDuTerroir",
      "created": 1535002592,
      "upvotes": 5,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o7jzh": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o7jzh/",
      "text": "Speaking directly saves time, my most precious resource. It's possible to be direct without being a jerk, though.",
      "author": "zanidor",
      "created": 1534992643,
      "upvotes": 8,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o9hn7": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o9hn7/",
      "text": "I'm in Canada and I feel that that professors are / the academic community here is too nice. I went to a graduate conference and the organizer said only positive, reinforcing comments would be encouraged. Nobody criticizes others at these conferences, blows my mind. Please, tell me some errors or gaps you notice in my work so I can fix them and develop. ",
      "author": "LevelSuspect",
      "created": 1534994747,
      "upvotes": 5,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4oego3": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oego3/",
      "text": "The example you gave doesn't really sound \"blunt\", it sounds malicious.  \n\nWhen I saw the thread title, I had a reply in mind along the lines of \"There's different cultural styles of communication, people in industry/government might find academics too curt and to-the-point, but the academics themselves would overwhelmingly prefer to receive a one-sentence email with a Call to Action than a three paragraph email with a bunch of preamble that eats up precious time, energy, and attention.\"\n\nBut it sounds like the people you're around are just assholes.  If at all practical, I'd try to disentangle myself from them if I were you.\n\nAutism-spectrum is not at all an excuse for \"leaning into\" meanness like that.  I know lots of people along those lines - when they realize they thoughtlessly made a mistake, they generally fall over themselves apologizing.  If the people you know wind up remarking on a mean thing they said and just adding pepper to it, that's deliberately being a shitty person, not a symptom of a mental disorder (except maybe a Cluster B Personality Disorder (which I wouldn't rule out. Take a look on this site and see if anything sounds familiar: http://www.outofthefog.net/ )).",
      "author": "Robin_Banx",
      "created": 1535000944,
      "upvotes": 3,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4oraf4": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oraf4/",
      "text": "I try not to be \"rude,\" and believe me, I have colleagues who drive me up a wall with actual rudeness to students.  In that regard, it's like almost any other job.  People become jaded, tired, and so on.\n\nBut, what students perceive as \"rude\" has shifted over time as well.  As secondary ed and even general ed have become less rigorous, then some of the bad habits that people have developed over time are arriving unchecked in the 300-400 (and Master's) levels.\n\nI know that I will occasionally have to do a \"gut check\" for students.  I have one who emailed me late last night about an assignment that was due ... late last night.  They hadn't checked any of the material they needed to, and they were basically completely lost.  They wanted to let me know if I would be \"an awesome professor\" and extend the deadline for them.\n\nThis is after they didn't come to the first week of class (M/W) and after not signing into our LMS the entire week.  In other words, they're asking for an extension on the deadline and already pushing the absence policy to its limit.  In the first week.  The primary excuse was that they were taking other classes.\n\nI'm not going to be rude to the student, and I realize shit happens, but in those cases, I am going to simply ask: Are you going to be able to do this?  Are you going to be able to keep up the pace?  It's not an insult to their intelligence or their ability.  It is simply me, taking a look at the gathered evidence, gathering some years of experience, and saying: look, this may not work out.  Are you sure you want to proceed?",
      "author": "MagicJasoni",
      "created": 1535024398,
      "upvotes": 3,
      "replies": {
        "e4oyb1r": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oyb1r/",
          "text": "I can see how having a student who thinks the rules don't apply to them would be frustrating. That's a pretty egregious abuse of your good will by the student to be asking for extensions the first week of class!\n\nIf the student really did just mess up this once, what could the student say to you or do to prove they're not just trying to flout the rules (beyond just turning stuff in on time in the future)? I, unfortunately, have found myself asking for extensions (though I didn't try to smooth-talk the professor like this student did) in the past for what I thought were legitimate reasons, but I felt really guilty about it.",
          "author": null,
          "created": 1535032436,
          "upvotes": 1,
          "replies": {
            "e4p38bs": {
              "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4p38bs/",
              "text": "The thought process I went through with this student was based on my experience.  I have a mental list of \"warning signs\" where I think a student is displaying behaviors/ideas that will lead to poor performance in the classroom.\n\nSo, in this particular case:\n\n1. not signing into the LMS for the first week of class\n\n2. not participating/attending in the first week of class\n\n3. realizing, with hours to spare, that an assignment was due\n\n4. asking for a favor because it would be a good thing for ME, not them\n\n5. stating that they were overloaded in classes \n\n6. not looking for an answer where they would be located -- asking questions about assignments that are clearly marked and explained on the LMS, policies on the syllabus, etc.\n\nAll of these things combined to tell me, from experience, that the student simply doesn't have the time/energy to devote to class (especially not even bothering to log in to the LMS, which takes, at most, 15 seconds to just \"check in\").  There's no shame in that.\n\nNow, can all of this stuff happen and the student still do well in the class?  You bet.  But it's pretty rare.  So, I do advise the student to think about their workload, what they're hoping to learn, and so on, and make the decision from there.  \n\nAs for extensions, more generally, remember the same thing applies--the older the professor, the more students they have in their mind that have tried to \"game\" them.  It's easy to say to take a student on a case-by-case basis, but it's REALLY hard to do.  When you ask for an extension, you're swimming upstream against hundreds, if not thousands, of students in the past who have attempted to game/manipulate/threaten/cajole the professor--you may be asking for an extension just a few moments after another student has done the same with a clearly bad reason.\n\nI've always found honesty to be the thing.  Not flattery.  Not tears. Not threats (and, if you're a student, you would be astounded by the number of students in the past few years who have started to do this), not \"excuses.\"   Just a quick clear explanation with \"how do I improve on this\"?  And a simple polite \"please.\"  It will do wonders.\n\nAnd, if you don't get an extension, see if you can stop in for office hours with an eye toward the next assignment.  Show you care and are invested in your education--hell, stop in for office hours or hang out after class early on.  Make yourself known as a conscientious student.  Most (though not all) professors want you to succeed, especially if it looks like YOU want to succeed.  \n\nThat alone will make your path forward a lot easier, extensions or not.",
              "author": "MagicJasoni",
              "created": 1535036801,
              "upvotes": 2,
              "replies": {}
            }
          }
        }
      }
    },
    "e4o3w7k": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o3w7k/",
      "text": "After working in management for years, I left to return to academia.  There are issues with tact everywhere, but the culture in most industries is pretty PC now and people have to answer to HR personnel if they cross a line. Academics usually don\u2019t have to deal with consequences for crossing lines with students. Tenure does weird things to people, up to and including making them think the rules don\u2019t apply to them (because they kinda don\u2019t).\n\nThe academics I deal with don\u2019t even catch some of the heinous shit they do. My program manager was in our research lab with two visiting professors while I was processing some specimens. He pulled a drawer out of our working cabinet...one that was full of stuff that I had pinned and pointed, and was getting ready to reorganize and add labels to. Everything in that drawer that wasn\u2019t done by me was done by him. He looked at the drawer and said to the two PhDs, \u201cyeah,  it looks incredible when it\u2019s done correctly. Some of my students are more anal retentive than others....\u201d and laughed...then I had to sit there while all three of them laughed. And I couldn\u2019t say anything.  I\u2019ve never been so embarrassed. He tried to play it off when I said something to him about it, but the damage was done. \n\nI had some giant assholes in upper management make me feel really small and be really honest with me about my areas of opportunity, but it was never like what I see from academics.  There\u2019s a difference between coaching and belittling, and too often I see the academics in my life belittle the absolute shit out of the people around them (especially the people that they\u2019re supposed to be mentoring).\n",
      "author": "_spacecoast",
      "created": 1534988737,
      "upvotes": 7,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4nprl3": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nprl3/",
      "text": "All professions have this, and its not necessarily the responsibility of the person giving the feedback to \u201cbe nice\u201d. \n\nSometimes feedback seems bad because we do not know how to take it, especially if we have been coddled or praised for mediocre stuff. We see the detriment of helicopter parenting, but we will see how this impacts industries.\n\nBeing disrespectful is different, and should not be tolerated.\n\nTheres a decent book out called Thanks for the Feedback that focuses on how to receive, and analyze the feedback you just received.",
      "author": null,
      "created": 1534975420,
      "upvotes": 5,
      "replies": {
        "e4nq9q7": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nq9q7/",
          "text": "I agree that you don't necessarily need to be nice; in fact, being overly polite when there's a serious issue isn't very productive. Thanks for the book recommendation.",
          "author": null,
          "created": 1534975872,
          "upvotes": 2,
          "replies": {}
        }
      }
    },
    "e4o28ti": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o28ti/",
      "text": "My theory is that ~~those of us~~ people who are attracted and survive in academia do so because we are blunt. In my field at least, I wouldn't even say we view it as 'blunt' as much as just how we have to operate to ensure accurate science and info is getting out.\n\nIt is also a bit of a combination of the need to manage time efficiently - why say in 10 words what I can say in 2?- and a bit of assimilation into the culture. \n\nPlus, as others have mentioned, while I may be very nice to the first student who comes and asks a question, around the 10th I may get a bit tired.",
      "author": "gamecat89",
      "created": 1534987113,
      "upvotes": 7,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o2kaj": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o2kaj/",
      "text": "Because a lot of them are on the autism spectrum. I wish I was joking, but I am not.\n\n>Even here on Reddit, responses in this sub and some of the others can be so soul-crushingly blunt. \n\nPeople generally tend to be very blunt or crude on the Internet where there is some anonymity.",
      "author": "BudgetCollection",
      "created": 1534987421,
      "upvotes": 7,
      "replies": {
        "e4o32nb": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o32nb/",
          "text": "I literally just told my husband that I\u2019m convinced that most of the academics I know are on the spectrum. It\u2019s the only way I can justify a lot of their behavior. ",
          "author": "_spacecoast",
          "created": 1534987922,
          "upvotes": 2,
          "replies": {}
        },
        "e4oe2ff": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oe2ff/",
          "text": "I\u2019m one of these relentlessly blunt academics, but I decided I can\u2019t be on the spectrum because I\u2019m too good at reading people.  If anything I\u2019m closer to a sociopath who can customize my message to connect with almost any individual.  But I\u2019m not a sociopath because I feel empathy strongly.  Ultimately I just don\u2019t share the value system that the majority of society follows, and the bluntness just stems from this.",
          "author": "iyzie",
          "created": 1535000388,
          "upvotes": 1,
          "replies": {
            "e4oj46b": {
              "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oj46b/",
              "text": "I think \"self-important\" is the phrase that best describes that combination. ^^^Yes, ^^^I ^^^see ^^^the ^^^irony.",
              "author": null,
              "created": 1535008578,
              "upvotes": 4,
              "replies": {
                "e4qhzwg": {
                  "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4qhzwg/",
                  "text": "Sure, society has a whole range of terms to control these behaviors that they don't like: arrogant, narcissist, self-important, etc.  I'm immune to such rhetorical bullshit because to me it's just the slave revolt in morals.",
                  "author": "iyzie",
                  "created": 1535083959,
                  "upvotes": 0,
                  "replies": {}
                }
              }
            }
          }
        }
      }
    },
    "e4og56o": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4og56o/",
      "text": "It largely comes down to demands on your time, it's the same reason city people all seem like dicks to us country folks.  you don't have time to sugarcoat everything so you take the action that handles things in the shortest amount of time with the least chance of confusion.  Of course there are also a lot of egos which leads to genuine dickishness, but it's important to distinguish that from bluntness.",
      "author": "Suspended4WrongThink",
      "created": 1535003422,
      "upvotes": 2,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o6xwo": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o6xwo/",
      "text": "autism? and if not that, most academics are either insecure or wildly narcissistic \u2014 in both cases, it\u2019s enjoyable to seem hypercompetent and to make someone else seem lesser. \n\n",
      "author": "cumstudiesphd",
      "created": 1534991988,
      "upvotes": 4,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o79v3": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o79v3/",
      "text": "i blame sleep deprivation ",
      "author": "justking14",
      "created": 1534992346,
      "upvotes": 1,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4owcta": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4owcta/",
      "text": "I\u2019ll be the Humanities guy here, but I\u2019ll say that\u2014in addition to a lot of the confounding circumstances brought up by my fellow posters\u2014there are major issues of power in Academia that likely exacerbated the problem. The erosion of tenure, combined with the precariatization of academic labor via adjuncts has created a dizzyingly vertical power structure wherein faculty at almost all levels have truly massive levels of power over those beneath them; and it is likely that they, too, spent time in the trenches getting sniped at and lorded over by the academics before them.  Essentially, people are assholes to the degree that their social structure will allow them, and academia lets its stars get away with everything short of murder. This is all conjectural based on my personal experiences, but things like the NYU lawsuit have me thinking about this subject more often lately.\n\nEdit: spelling",
      "author": "Putter_Mayhem",
      "created": 1535030527,
      "upvotes": 1,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4p70pv": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4p70pv/",
      "text": "If you're asking for anecdotal evidence: all of my work environments in academia have been far less blunt than my work environments in my previous two professions. I'm certainly not the only one who feels this way - Cummings made a similar transition and discusses exactly this issue:\n\n[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/missy-cummings-professor-fighter-pilot/558701/](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/missy-cummings-professor-fighter-pilot/558701/)\n\n\u200b\n\nTalking to friends and family, I generally get the impression that e.g. cuisine, finance, law, medicine, military, and software development are all typically worse; I've heard accounting and engineering are pretty friendly, in part because hiring standards are good. Of course there are good mentors in all of those fields, just as there are in academia.\n\n​\n\nEDIT: Also the person in your story was being a jerk. But as others say, there are jerks everywhere (and decent people having jerky days).",
      "author": "HM_D",
      "created": 1535040100,
      "upvotes": 1,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4svbtm": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4svbtm/",
      "text": "When I was a freshman a professor failed me for an essay I wrote and in his office asked me if I thought I was \u201creally suited for university\u201d. \n\nTo this day I don\u2019t know why I was graded so harshly for it. I still wonder if he mistook me for someone else who had maybe insulted him or something. \n\nAs it turned out, university *was* for me and now I teach at one, and I would never say something like that to one of my young students.",
      "author": null,
      "created": 1535187220,
      "upvotes": 1,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4nxffv": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4nxffv/",
      "text": "Autism mostly. \n\nSeriously though, academia is more attractive to individuals of high intellect but low emotional intelligence than most other professions, and it\u2019s hard to hide that for very long. ",
      "author": null,
      "created": 1534982486,
      "upvotes": 1,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4oq4zk": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4oq4zk/",
      "text": "Ego ",
      "author": "MissingQuark",
      "created": 1535022618,
      "upvotes": 1,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4pqu7q": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4pqu7q/",
      "text": "It's compensatory narcissism. Many academics are profoundly insecure. It's perhaps because of the competitive and uncertain nature of the environment. Nevertheless, making other people feel small makes them feel big.\n\n​\n\nYou're not too sensitive, but maybe take their opinions with a grain of salt. No one knows what the hell is going on, regardless of how confident and successful the person appears.\n\n​\n\nI reckon many people leave academia just to not deal with these people.",
      "author": "retinal91",
      "created": 1535056385,
      "upvotes": 0,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o0z6z": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o0z6z/",
      "text": "I know what you mean about bluntness, but yes, every other profession is like this. ",
      "author": "WoodwardHoffmannRule",
      "created": 1534985891,
      "upvotes": 0,
      "replies": {}
    },
    "e4o5e8b": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4o5e8b/",
      "text": "Yes, sometimes we are real dicks",
      "author": null,
      "created": 1534990241,
      "upvotes": -1,
      "replies": {
        "e4q88u9": {
          "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4q88u9/",
          "text": "and somebody needs to learn a new word - \"sarcasm\"",
          "author": null,
          "created": 1535073319,
          "upvotes": 0,
          "replies": {}
        }
      }
    },
    "e4ofubj": {
      "link": "/r/AskAcademia/comments/99gtqx/why_are_academics_so_blunt_to_the_point_of_being/e4ofubj/",
      "text": "Nice guys finish last.",
      "author": "ThePersonof21",
      "created": 1535002952,
      "upvotes": -4,
      "replies": {}
    }
  }
}