This interview was first published on Neil Sattin's highly regarded Relationship Alive Podcast. Although some of the material may be familiar, there's much that's new, and you will enjoy the chemistry between Neil and David as they discuss each of the ten cognitive distortions and raise many challenging questions, such as:
- Is it really true that only our thoughts--and NOT external events--can change the way we feel?
- If someone has the belief, "I'm unlovable," isn't that type of thought immutable? How could you possibly change or modify a thought that may be rooted in traumatic experiences and so deeply embedded in a patient's psyche?
- Should we try to change other people's cognitive distortions, or just our own?
- How can we challenge each of the ten cognitive distortions?
090: Roy Germano Interview — How David Became an Anti-Antidepressant Crusader and a Bestselling Author
You will get some personal glimpses into the early days of my career, including why I left academics to pursue a full-time private practice, along with some of controversies about antidepressants. You will also hear a story of what happened when I was trying, rather unsuccessfully, to get my first book, Feeling Good, published. It wasn’t easy, and it almost didn’t happen!
Roy is terrific and his podcasts cover a wide range of topics. You can find his podcasts on iTunes.
I recently did the first of three interviews with Stephanie James on her superb radio show and podcast, The Spark.
Join us as we talk with the legendary Dr. David Burns about how we can break through the old thinking habits that bind us and begin to live a more happy, harmonious life where we can feel good now. Stephanie is a superb therapist and dynamic radio personality from Colorado. It was an honor to be on her show. She is co-authoring a book on how to live a “spark-filled life.” It should be completed soon, so you’ll likely be hearing from Stephanie a lot next year!
This interview with Stephanie focused, in part, on the evolution of the new TEAM-CBT from traditional Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Stephanie asks Dr. Burns questions on a wide range of topics, including:
- How would you treat a case of social anxiety?
- What is “therapeutic whitewashing” and how can therapists get over it? What should therapists do instead?
- How would you work with violent incarcerated teenagers, such as gang members?
- Why is it so important for therapists who are learning TEAM-CBT to check their egos at the door?
- After you published your first book, Feeling Good, and the first research study on CBT was published, cognitive therapy swept the world. After your initial euphoria, your enthusiasm dimmed somewhat. Why? And what new direction did your research lead?
- What are the most common errors that therapists make in thinking about the causes of therapeutic resistance?
- How can you overcome a patient’s resistance to change?
- Can TEAM-CBT work rapidly for someone with horrific abuse and decades of failed therapy?
- How can you prevent relapses following the patient’s initial recovery?
Stephanie is a outstanding therapist and radio personality from Colorado. It was an honor to be on her show on three occasions. Stephanie is co-authoring a book on how to live a “spark-filled life.” It should be completed soon, so you’ll likely be hearing much more from Stephanie during 2019!
The Spark 029: Breakthrough to Healing with Dr. Matthew May.
Lisa Nicole Bell is the host of the highly regarded podcast, Behind the Brilliance. In this lively interview, Nicole and David talk about
- David’s path into the mental health field
- the difficulties and rejections David faced getting his first book, Feeling Good, published
- David’s advice to listeners interested in therapy
- how he approaches perfectionism, depression, and anxiety with patients
- the joys of a life free from the need to be special—
Mark is a Stanford-trained geneticist and molecular biologist who is considered one of founders of the field of stem cell research. He has been developing a model of how TEAM-CBT affects the brain, and graciously agreed to present his model at our Tuesday evening Stanford TEAM-CBT seminar last week. Although his model is not yet fully polished and refined, and involves considerable speculation, it is an exciting first step, kind of like the time when astronomers broke away from the Catholic church and started trying to make sense of the universe. In this instance it is the “inner universe” Dr. Noble, all of us, are trying to understand. His model will evolve and get more and more refined over time.
Dr. Noble describes brain function in terms of the SNEFF model. This stands for Structures, Networks, Emotions, Frames and Filters, and links these concepts to the prefrontal cortex, amygdala and sympathetic nervous system. Then he describes the four steps of TEAM (T = Testing, E = Empathy, A = (Paradoxical) Agenda Setting, and M = Methods), and links each step to the SNEFF model, making interesting speculations on how TEAM works and what makes it so effective.
Dr. Noble also discusses David’s “fractal” theory about psychotherapy and relates that to brain function as well as to the mathematics of complex structures.
Fabrice and David are pleased to chat with Dr. Taylor Chesney who is an expert in the treatment of children and teenagers with TEAM-CBT.
Today she reveals the inside scoop on how to use TEAM-CBT with children and teenagers, and their parents.
Rebroadcast of a fabulous interview David did recently for “The Upgrade” Podcast (sponsored by the popular Life Hacker website with hosts Melissa Kirsch and Alice Bradley on a range of topics, including:
- Why did you write Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy?
- Is depression caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain?
- What’s your experience with electro-convulsive therapy (ECT)?
- Why did you give up your research career in biological psychiatry?
- How can you tease out your negative thoughts when you know you're depressed but you just can’t think of any thoughts?
- How does TEAM-CBT differ from conventional CBT?
- Can you use TEAM-CBT with severe problems, or is it only for individuals with mild mood disturbances?
I am profoundly sad to say goodbye to my beloved friend and terrific podcast host, Dr. Fabrice Nye, who is leaving the podcast to start his own show this spring. I wish him well on his new podcast he'll be releasing soon. I'll share the specifics when they become available so loyal fans can tune in and follow him!
My feelings of profound loss are comforted by welcoming another dear friend and colleague, Dr. Rhonda Barovsky, our new host. Rhonda and I look forward to creating many more fabulous podcasts for all of you.
Rhonda received her doctoral degree in Forensic Psychology from the Eisner Institute for Professional Studies in 2013. Throughout her career, she has been a champion of women’s rights and defender of the victims of childhood sexual abuse. Rhonda is the founder of the San Francisco Juvenile Sex Offender Treatment Program and has served as Director of San Francisco Family Court Services. She has also worked at the San Francisco Rape Treatment Center, providing crisis and short-term counseling for adult survivors of sexual assault and their families.
On the show, Fabrice and David share fondest memories of the show, and Rhonda talks about new directions as she becomes the host of the Feeling Good Podcast. Fabrice also gives some hints about his new show, which will be broadcast in French and English. Fabrice will describe and translate new developments in psychology research and relate the findings to our daily lives.
In today's podcast, David and Rhonda interview Dr. David Hanscom, a renowned and controversial spine surgeon who gave up a large and lucrative surgical practice in favor of helping and educating people struggling with back pain, directing them on the path to recovery without surgery or drugs.
Dr. Hanscom describes his personal journey and recovery from panic, pain, and other disabling somatic symptoms when he read Dr. Burns' book, Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, and began doing the written triple column technique to challenge his own negative thoughts and overcome his own feelings of depression, panic, hopelessness, and anger.
He also began to study alarming research reports indicating that many of the surgical procedures were no more effective than placebos; and even worse, he could see that back surgery often had damaging and even disabling and horrific effects on patients.
And he also discovered that most of the patients seeking surgery for back pain could be helped simply through talk therapy and support, by focusing on the problems in their lives, rather than simply focusing on pain and pills.
He analyzed the data with sophisticated statistical modeling techniques to evaluate two competing theories about why pain and negative feelings go hand-in-hand.
- Physical pain could cause negative feelings, like depression, anxiety and anger. This seems plausible, since physical pain is so debilitating, and just plain awful.
- Negative feelings could have a causal effect on physical pain.
The analyses indicated that there were causal effects in both directions, but the most powerful effect, by far, was the effect of negative emotions on physical pain. In fact, the analyses indicated that, on average, half of the physical pain these patients were experiencing, on average, was the direct result of their negative emotions.
Today, Dr. Noble returns to discuss his illuminating ideas, and prevents an overview of his chapter entitled, "TEAM CBT and the Art of Micro-Neurosurgery: A Brain User's Guide to Feeling Great," which will appear in David's new book, Feeling Great, which will be released by PESI in 2020.
Dr. Noble explains that he read about David's work on drug-free treatments for depression in the October, 2013 issue of Stanford Magazine entitled Mind Over Misery, This article became the most-read article in the history of the Stanford Magazine. Dr. Noble was particularly interested in drug-free treatments for depression because of some alarming research emerging in his laboratory on the central nervous system impact of some popular antidepressants on lysosomes in the brain.
In fact, Dr. Noble presents the amazing idea that if you had to invent a form of psychotherapy that was specifically developed to capitalize on how the brain works, you would come up with something very much like TEAM-CBT.
Dr. Noble explains that if you want to change the way you think, feel, and behave, you have to change certain specific networks in your brain. That's because networks of nerves are the biological equivalents of thoughts.
"One of the most famous concepts in the science of learning is called, "What Fires Together Wires Together" (FTWT). Nerve cells that frequently interact with each other become functionally connected, and the more they fire together, the stronger the connections become. This is how new networks are formed and how existing networks become stronger.
"In addition, nerve cells that are Wired Together tend to Fire Together (WTFT). WTFT. This idea explains why once you've learned something it gets easier to repeat it every time you do it."
Dr. Noble also explains why Dr. Burns' concept of "Fractal Psychotherapy" is so complimentary to our understanding of the human brain, as are the other components of TEAM-CBT, including T = Testing, E = Empathy, A = Assessment of Resistance, and M = Methods.
Dr. Noble also explains why conventional therapy--where the patient comes in week after week to vent about his / her problems--may actually make the patient worse. This is because the neurons that Fire Together every week, actually Wire Together. So, in simple neuroscience terms, conventional therapy may actually lead patients in the wrong direction, by strengthening the negative circuits in the brain.
Mon, 30 Dec 2019 09:00:00 +0000
We are joined today by Amir Sabouri, PhD, MD, a highly esteemed neurologist from Iran with extensive medical training in the United States in addition to his PhD research in molecular immunology in Japan. Amir specializes in the treatment of horrific neuromuscular disorders such as ALS (the dreaded Lou Gehrig's Disease) at one of our local Kaiser Hospitals here in the San Francisco Bay Area. In today's riveting and inspiring interview, Amir describes how he discovered that, in spite of his extensive technical training, his strongest and most effective medicine by far is sometimes a healing dose of humility and compassion, delivered with the Five Secrets of Effective Communication.
I mentioned an experience I had as a medical student working in the medical outpatient clinic at Stanford under the direction of Dr. Allen Barbour, who wrote a beautiful book on the human side of medicine, Caring for Patients. I was assigned to a mailman who had been struggling with intractable angina, which is relentless chest pain due to problems with the blood supply to the heart. He was scheduled for one of the first open heart surgeries at Stanford. The idea was to improve the blood circulation to the heart, and the surgery was brand new and still somewhat experimental, and potentially quite risky.
In the past, coaches have not been permitted to enter the TEAM-CBT certification program. However, Dr. Angela Krumm, who is the head of the FGI certification program changed that policy specifically so that Steve—and now, other certified coaches as well--can be certified in TEAM-CBT, and I applaud this change.
The role of lay therapists has always been highly controversial. I can recall that when I was in college in the 1960s, there was a lively debate about so-called “lay psychoanalysts.” Previously, you had to be an MD to be a psychoanalyst, but over time, non-MDs were permitted to become psychoanalysts. To my way of thinking, this debate has always been more about power and the protection of territory than about skill or the capacity to heal.
Next, we asked Steve about the role of spirituality in his TEAM-CBT counseling, since he is a also a lay minister. I am convinced that the spiritual dimension can be important and powerful in therapy, and that at the moment of our deepest change, the change is not only psychological, emotional, and behavioral, but also spiritual, because we may suddenly “see” things from a much deeper perspective. Much in TEAM-CBT is easily integrated with spirituality. For example, the Acceptance Paradox is an inherently spiritual technique that can play an important role in recovery from depression and anxiety.
Rhonda, Fabrice, and David discuss psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, Fabrice’s wonderful new marriage, his fascinating new podcast (http://peaceatlast.us/), and more.
David and Rhonda are thrilled to have our beloved friend and colleague, Dr. Fabrice Nye, as the special guest on today’s podcast. Many of you will remember Fabrice as the man who gave birth to the Feeling Good Podcast, and acted as host for the first 133 podcasts.
The main focus of today’s podcast is Fabrice’s participation in promising new research on the treatment of PTSD. The participants in the study are veterans receiving psychotherapy that is assisted by treatment with MDMA during extended treatment session. MDMD is also known as the party drug, Ecstasy. However, the MDMA used in the research is chemically pure, whereas Ecstasy is generally obtained on the street and may not be pure.
Fabrice describes MDMA as an “empathogen” that makes people more loving and more in touch with their emotions. This can make it easier for patients with PTSD to talk about their traumatic experiences and painful feelings, which people with PTSD usually try to avoid. Avoidance makes all forms of anxiety much worse, where as exposure is usually beneficial.
It felt so good to be reunited with you for an hour. Wish we didn’t have to cut it so short. Here are some of the links that you may want to provide to your listeners.
- Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), which sponsors and funds the Phase 3 trial of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD: https://maps.org/
- Michal & Annie Mithoefer, lead researchers for the study: https://mapspublicbenefit.com/staff/michael-mithoefer-m-d/
- Psychedelic research at Johns Hopkins University: https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/
- Roland Griffiths, main researcher for psilocybin studies at JHU: https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/griffiths
- List of federal clinical trials involving psychedelics in the U.S.: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=&term=psychedelic&cntry=US
- Article on how to have a legal psychedelic experience (but not necessarily a safe one): https://psychedelic.support/resources/legal-ways-to-pursue-psychedelic-experiences/
- And finally... Here’s how to find my new podcast, to be launched on February 6, 2020: http://peaceatlast.us/ Fabrice Nye [email protected]