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SM damage rebalance #28321

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Migratingcocofruit
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@Migratingcocofruit Migratingcocofruit commented Feb 10, 2025

What Does This PR Do

Increases the mole heat penalty minimum from 0.25 to 1, makes the healing threshold the same as the temperature damage threshold even when using N2O, and increases space damage as well.

For context: Previously mentioned Supermatter explosion changes were reverted. This PR does not change it.

Why It's Good For The Game

The supermatter is far too easy to keep under control, and delaminates almost exclusively due to extreme incompetence.
Specifically spacing the supermatter stalls the delamination for so long it can make the crystal last past the end of the shift.

Images of changes

Testing

  • Measured the damage rate in space and when on fire to make sure it worked as intended.

Declaration

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  • I confirm that I either do not require pre-approval for this PR, or I have obtained such approval and have included a screenshot to demonstrate this below.

Changelog

🆑
tweak: Increases the mole heat penalty minimum to 1
tweak: Increases space damage from EER / 4000 to (EER + 2000) / 2000
tweak: changes temp healing so it scales with the current temperature damage point(which is also dependent on the portion of N2O)
/:cl:

@Migratingcocofruit Migratingcocofruit changed the title Sm explosion and damage rebalance SM explosion and damage rebalance Feb 10, 2025
@ParadiseSS13-Bot ParadiseSS13-Bot added the -Status: Awaiting approval This PR is waiting for approval internally label Feb 10, 2025
@Fordoxia
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Delamination drains all station SMES and causes an APC short event that also drains the affected APCs' cells

Pain and suffering beyond measure. Not only does the big hole have to be fixed and a new power source procured (especially since no SMES on the station is safe, RIP electrical maint's one job), but also at the same time a whole bunch of APCs need to be opened up and fixed.

@Migratingcocofruit
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Delamination drains all station SMES and causes an APC short event that also drains the affected APCs' cells

Pain and suffering beyond measure. Not only does the big hole have to be fixed and a new power source procured (especially since no SMES on the station is safe, RIP electrical maint's one job), but also at the same time a whole bunch of APCs need to be opened up and fixed.

It's going to give engineering some work to be sure, but it won't be near as bad as having a hole where engineering used to be. If you have solars set up and some assistants to assist with the APCs you should be able to focus on remaking the engine and get everything sorted well within the shift.

@Carthusia
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Wait, why would we want to negate the damage of the SM explosion? The entire point of the max sized explosion is basicly either a punishment for failing to manage it properly, EXTREME bad luck, or the result of antag shenanigans.

Personally ive always figured the explosion should be larger, though im probably an insane minority in that camp

@Migratingcocofruit
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Migratingcocofruit commented Feb 11, 2025

Wait, why would we want to negate the damage of the SM explosion? The entire point of the max sized explosion is basicly either a punishment for failing to manage it properly, EXTREME bad luck, or the result of antag shenanigans.

Personally ive always figured the explosion should be larger, though im probably an insane minority in that camp

The issue here is that the really big explosion is not something you could reasonably fix, both because of the size and because it takes out atmos, and if you have solars or setup the back SMES in electrical maints you can just coast on that power for the rest of the shift.
It's basically either game-over or the shift goes on as normal, and actually ends up being quite anticlimactic when compared to a smaller explosion that also causes a serious power outage.

The idea here is to create a situation where a more "mundane" delamination is actually fixable while also having an immediate effect on the rest of the station that can be addressed by rebuilding the engine.

Oh, and singuloose and tesloose still exist for the more extreme setups when they either go wrong or get sabotaged.

@Komrad822
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Komrad822 commented Feb 11, 2025

Delams need to be significant to be an ample reason to call the shuttle for hijacks. spacing the sm is a valid way to fix the sm as its a way to slow it down and do work at a good pace without it causing more issues for you. You are making it harder to stop a delam and easier to fix the aftermath of one.

Sometimes it is better to condone the area and move on with the round or call shuttle.

@Migratingcocofruit
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Migratingcocofruit commented Feb 11, 2025

Delams need to be significant to be an ample reason to call the shuttle for hijacks.

I disagree. Not every delam should be a round end, especially with how unexciting they are for most of the crew and the fact that so little can be done about it within the shift. It's punishing, which by itself is good, but it is punishing in a way that doesn't motivate any sort of action and simply ends up more boring than anything else.

spacing the sm is a valid way to fix the sm as its a way to slow it down and do work at a good pace without it causing more >issues for you.

Indeed. but it shouldn't allow you to forget about the SM for the rest of the shift while it's ever so slowly delaminating.

You are making it harder to stop a delam and easier to fix the aftermath of one.

That is the whole point. Giving engineering a chance to fix the engine is a great opportunity for them to learn from their mistake.

Sometimes it is better to condone the area and move on with the round or call shuttle.

Sometimes, but not nearly every time, which is the case right now.

@Migratingcocofruit
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Can this get a testmerge tag please?

@kyunkyunkyun
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Delams need to be significant to be an ample reason to call the shuttle for hijacks. spacing the sm is a valid way to fix the sm as its a way to slow it down and do work at a good pace without it causing more issues for you. You are making it harder to stop a delam and easier to fix the aftermath of one.

Sometimes it is better to condone the area and move on with the round or call shuttle.

you still can create a singulo or tesla by delam, so this PR doesn't affect hijacks at all

@silverplatedelta silverplatedelta added Balance This PR will modify how effective something is or isnt Tweak This PR tweaks something ingame labels Feb 12, 2025
@Stoniest
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I agree with Komrad, it is meant to be something that if it goes wrong, it has a good chance of making a shuttle call happen if done by hijackers (this also includes the chaos being made too). But if it happens during an extended round, then it gives engineering something to do, which is get atmos back into shape, build a new containment and engine, if ya mess up, then ya gotta clean up the mess as a team.

@Migratingcocofruit
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I agree with Komrad, it is meant to be something that if it goes wrong, it has a good chance of making a shuttle call happen if done by hijackers (this also includes the chaos being made too). But if it happens during an extended round, then it gives engineering something to do, which is get atmos back into shape, build a new containment and engine, if ya mess up, then ya gotta clean up the mess as a team.

In reality the hole rarely gets patched, atmos never ever gets refilled and the rest of the station either coasts on solars and the electrical maints SMES or just calls shuttle because they can't be bothered to fix it or have run out of air in distro.
I don't even remember the last time where the engine delaminated while I was not playing engineering and I was affected by it in any way.

There is a lot for engineering to fix with these changes because rather than making a hole so big it will very seldom get fixed, the engine destroys itself, the SMES all get drained and a bunch of APCs get drained as well. The station is left in a less functional state than old behaviour so non engineers will feel the consequences here far more than they used to and engineering will have to take care of the aftermath. The only thing the rest of the station will suffer less from is atmos getting destroyed, but it was rarely fixed and even more rarely refilled.

It's not that I want the SM exploding to have less consequences. It's just that when the consequences are a coin toss between negligible and overwhelming they very rarely end up getting dealt with. If you have any ideas that would make the delam even more severe I'm open to suggestions, I just ask that those would be things that could feasibly be fixed within the shift by engie or an engie ERT(explode the SMES instead of draining them maybe).

@silverplatedelta
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silverplatedelta commented Feb 21, 2025

Hey there! First and foremost, Thank you for being so responsive with feedback with this PR. Its lovely to see someone so enthusiastic work on engineering content.

Unfortunately, at this time, there are four balance team objections to this PR. I'm going to attach the reasons below. To summarize, many team members feel that significantly reducing the consequences of losing the engine would negatively impact it. Feel free to ping us here or on discord if you have any questions!

[BALANCE OBJECTIOR 1]: delams need to be significant to be an ample reason to call the shuttle for hijacks. spacing the sm is a vdlid way to fix the sm as its a way to slow it down and do work at a good pace without it causing more issues for you. You are making it harder to stop a delam and easier to fix the aftermath of one.

[BALANCE OBJECTOR 2]: I agree with [BALANCE OBJECTIOR 1], it is meant to be something that if it goes wrong, it has a good chance of making a shuttle call happen if done by hijackers (this also includes the chaos being made too). But if it happens during an extended round, then it gives engineering something to do, which is get atmos back into shape, build a new containment and engine.

[DESIGN OBJECTOR 1]: It is already the least destructive engine and easiest to make safe. No need to further handhold and babyproof it.

[BALANCE OBJECTOR 3]: Agreed with the rest, a stations engine exploding is a serious event and should be fairly crippling. Its not something that should be able to be brushed off.

[BALANCE OBJECTOR 4]: agree with above.

@Migratingcocofruit Migratingcocofruit changed the title SM explosion and damage rebalance SM damage rebalance Feb 22, 2025
@Migratingcocofruit Migratingcocofruit marked this pull request as draft February 22, 2025 03:28
@Migratingcocofruit
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Drafting this until the new version gets any form of approval

@Migratingcocofruit Migratingcocofruit marked this pull request as ready for review February 22, 2025 18:01
@ParadiseSS13-Bot ParadiseSS13-Bot added the Testmerge Requested This PR has a pending testmerge request label Feb 22, 2025
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